Emacs keybindings

[abuechle]

Hi,

since I'm used to emacs I wondered whether ultraedit supports emacs keybindings. As far as I could find out there is no such option in the configuration menu. Any ideas?

Regards,
Andi

[sysdev]

i'm also a long time emacs (xemacs) user and would like to see a key map for emacs.

[BillStewart]

Hi,

The main problem is that UE doesn't support multiple-key mappings (emacs calls them prefix keys, IIRC), such as Ctrl-X Ctrl-C. I wrote support and asked for this as a feature, but they said it probably wouldn't happen this year. I recommend writing support@idmcomp.com to ask that they give this a greater priority. In my opinion, this would be a huge improvement and would make UE a more competitive product.

Bill

[Bego]

Hi,

Here another opinion: for me it is one of the most uninteresting features ever discussed. Emaxs is emacs and UE is UE.
A better syntax coloring support (more than really 8, reg. exp.) or better Macro support (nested loops, variables) are much more urgent.
Pls don't take it personal, it's only my opinion.

rds Bego

[BillStewart]

Hi Bego,

No disrespect intended, but some of us have been using a particular style of editor for so many years that it feels a bit patronizing to be told to learn a new set of keyboard commands. It's then frustrating that UE can't emulate the commands we're used to because it doesn't support multiple-keystroke mappings. For example, I started using WordStar in 1984, and it's natural to type Ctrl-K Q to quit (close) a file. There are freeware editors that support prefix keystrokes (such as PFE), so I was surprised that UE can't do it.

Prospective buyers may be (and in fact I was) put off by this limitation, and for many it's actually a show-stopper. In my own case, my company bought a license for me because I like many of UE's features. I figured that if I contributed to UE's development and made my voice heard, there might be a better chance that UE would support it in the future.

Regards,

Bill

[cedar]

Definitly a show-stopper for me. I won't buy UE exactly because it lacks support for emacs keybindings or the ability to define your own keys (not entirely true - you can change a few of them, but not enough to do chords). I've even been rejected to implement the feature into the source code myself. I don't understand not making this OSS. There's nothing here that can't be written by an able programmer, and this software is often pirated. So what's the hold up? What is being protected? Back to the point though: every modern editor should support multiple key bindings. Multiple key modes, a la vi, would be a bonus.

[BillStewart]

Hi cedar,

If I had to guess, I'd say that most UE users are Windows folks that have never used DOS or UNIX applications that had different keyboard commands. The request seems somewhat incomprehensible to them (Bego's reply, above, being a case in point).

Thanks for making my point. UE is losing out on a certain percentage of its market because it lacks this capability. IDM would be wise to implement it; otherwise, UE won't be taken seriously by hard-core coders that don't want to learn a new keyboard layout.

Regards,

Bill

[Bego]

Hi Bill,

Somewhat, you are right. But I know vi and gvim since long time and never was a friend of it (But have to use it sometimes). I accept guys that use these commands but me I shiver if I hear: Copy with "yy", count the lines..., a = append, hjkl=move cursor....
Am I in command mode now ? Uups, no, it types an x instead of deleting one char. *lol*.
Its a religion here. So let IDM implemet this "feature". So it shall be, I don't begrudge you here

rds bego

[runbei]

I'm a writer, not a programmer (tho perforce I'm learning HTML with feet dragging).

I've used WordStar key bindings since 1982. I can get by with single-key substitutes for some of the full WS ^K-/^Q- combinations. E.g., ^Q is delete to end of line, ^L is delete left word, ^K delete left character.

These I can easily create with a macro. I've purchased UE because it looks awesome and would seem to allow me to do that. Keyboard remapping ability is essential for writers, and I suspect for coders as well. I can't imagine using Microsoft's CUA keys to write code all day: "Lift hand from keyboard, find arrow keys, stretch pinky to Control."

If I sense that IDM is beginning to think it knows better than its users, I'll jump ship quickly. (Where's Seymour Rubenstein?)

[runbei]

P.S. It's disappointing that the keyboard remapping feature list includes every possible advanced program command but NOT the most basic mappings, such as Up, Down, Left, Right - what to mention Delete Left/Right Character, Delete Left Word, etc. Basic stuff!

Boxer has it (in a wonderfully clean and simple remap implementation). I'm trying to make IDM sufficiently jealous and insecure that they'll write the code tonight.

Really, it is possible to do a lot with single-ctrl-key commands. Don't get me started on the brain-dead keyboard layout of WordStar. Streeeetch your pinky to ^Q - when ^M ("move!") isn't used? And no Delete Word Left command? More: other keys right that <don't> require a stretch are assigned to infrequently used commands: ^J, ^L. Could be better.

[BillStewart]

runbei wrote:

I've used WordStar key bindings since 1982. I can get by with single-key substitutes for some of the full WS ^K-/^Q- combinations. E.g., ^Q is delete to end of line, ^L is delete left word, ^K delete left character.

I've been used to the WordStar keyboard layout almost that long (1984), and that doesn't quite cut it, because ^L means "repeat last find or replace." ^G means Del (delete current character) and ^H means Backspace (delete character to the left of the cursor).

Boxer has it (in a wonderfully clean and simple remap implementation).

This is factually incorrect; Boxer can't do multi-key mappings either. It's genuinely mystifying to me that any modern editor is missing this capability. Like I said in my previous post, this is a show-stopper for some people.

I'm trying to make IDM sufficiently jealous and insecure that they'll write the code tonight.

I've written to IDM about this. I don't hold out much hope that this capability will get added very soon.

Really, it is possible to do a lot with single-ctrl-key commands. Don't get me started on the brain-dead keyboard layout of WordStar. Streeeetch your pinky to ^Q - when ^M ("move!") isn't used? And no Delete Word Left command?

Whether you happen to prefer WordStar's key mappings is not the point. (For the record, ^M is a carriage return.) The point here is that UE's keyboard mapping mechanism is extremely weak and prevents people from really using a layout they prefer.

What UE really needs is its own built-in programming language and an open keyboard layout that supports multi-key mappings. TSE Pro is an excellent example of how it ought to work.

Regards,

Bill

[smutt]

I just found this post by googling for "emacs ultraedit" and hitting "I'm feeling lucky". My company uses Ultraedit and for the most part I like it. But I am constantly switching between Linux and Windows. As such I am constantly switching between Emacs and Ultraedit. I have been an Emacs user for 5-8 years or so. But am new to Ultraedit.

I REALLY WANT EMACS KEYBINDINGS IN ULTRAEDIT!

That being said I think there are a lot of people like me. Don't think this is just a fluff feature or a nice to have. My fingers have a memory longer than my mind does and I am tired of learning new key bindings. And Emacs for Windows really does suck.

[BillStewart]

Hi smutt,

Write to support@idmcomp.com and tell them that we need a more flexible keybinding mechanism (so you can have emacs, and I can have WordStar). Post this thread's URL in your message so they can see this conversation. I doubt this will happen soon, but if we keep annoying them then maybe it will actually get on the "to do" list.

Regards,

Bill

[runbei]

p.p.s. Ignoring that the person who corrected me misinterpreted my statements...

Vedit has a set of WordStar key bindings (EMACS, too? I don't know), and you can customize the WS set as I suggested above - e.g., changing ^L to "delete word left," ^Qx to ^Mx, etc.

Still, I really like UE now, and I've decided to live with the single-key macros I've defined for WS-like editing.

[BillStewart]

Hi runbei,

Sorry for the misinterpretation.

However, I stand by my statement that it's mystifying that a modern text editor can't do simple multi-keystroke bindings. I contend that UE will not be taken seriously by many programmers until this happens.

Regards,

Bill